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The best way to avoid a lip? Keeping mom active and helping her
change
positions if she's resting -- rotate positions every half hour at
least.
Next best way? Don't look[Grin]! If a lip is holding things back
you will
find out very quickly.. if it isn't you'll see the baby soon.
My experience shows that cervical lips are common. I have
helped
them manually and never had cervical tearing. You can wait
and have
a woman not push while it goes away, which can assist with
maternal exhaustion,
or you can hold it back. The way you do that is to hold it
up before
the next cont begins, then keep it there when the head comes down
past
it. Cervical lips aren't indicators of problems, but
usually
a cx that stays at 7 or 8 cms is telling you something is
up. Posterior,
military, ascynclitism, cockeyed. I just had my biggest baby ever
yesterday,
just 10 1/2 #, and the mom was 7-8 when I arrived, and 7-8 3
or 4
hours later. I gave her blk cohosh tincture, she laid on her
left
side, the baby rotated and I held the cervix back while she
pushed.
The guy del'd in 11 minutes. Anyhow- sometimes these slight
angled
posterior will rotate, and sometimes they wont. Sometimes
the mom
dels a posterior (persistant posterior) and sometimes the baby
needs to
get sectioned. But doing nothing for a real long time isn;'t
in my
repertoire, because if we can't get affect change, and knowing the
hospital
takes HOURS to get things rolling, it can comprimise the moom and
baby
to just hang out.
I know I have posted this suggestion before, but it bears repeating. If you detect a lip on the cervix, it indicates that the head is not symmetrically applied (creating unequal pressure of the dilating forces). What you need to do is change the angle of the fetal head against the cervix before the fundus cranks down impressively against the butt and shoves the head through the pelvis at the wrong angle (creating decels, and nasty cervical and vaginal tears, among other things).
My time honored trick to reposition the head against the cervix
is the
have the mom blow through two contractions on her left side, two
contractions
on her right side (you can do this even with an epidural running
for those
of you in the hospital), then two contractions on hands and knees,
and
the last two in knee-chest position (not possible with the
epidural, but
you can roll her back to the right side and adduct the left leg
into the
frog (McRoberts)position for the two contractions and do the
opposite on
the left side instead of H&K and KC. Or you can elevate her
hips with
pillows higher than her head for the last two sets of two
contractions).
Then check her again. I have never had to run through more than
two sets
of the eight contractions as set out above to correct the
asynclitism.
A whole lot nicer than attempting just to shove the lip back,
which encourages
the head to come down while failing to correct the asynclitic
presentation.
The anterior lip is a dead giveaway that the peg is not fitting
through
the hole at the correct angle. So if you can't directly change the
angle
of the head, then change the angle of the mother. Something will
give.
Saves icing the lip and manipulations, etc. Manipulation of a
cervical
lip can make it more prone to tearing, etc.- not someplace any of
us doing
OOH births really want to go or repair!! If it helps you to
visualize this,
try it with a doll and a pelvis and see if you can observe that an
asynclitic
head (usually anterior) will creat the unequal cervical pressure
and the
anterior lip.
There appears to be some anecdotal evidence that mother-directed
pushing
can be done without fear of swelling her cervix. So...
What,
in your experience, makes cervixes swell? If a swollen
cervix presents
itself, what do you do about it?
Evening Primrose oil to the cervix--has worked every time almost
immediately.
I love it.
Dystocia as in feto-pelvic disproportion..........a swollen
cervix (like
a fat donut), in its true form, is NOT a good sign! Prayer,
frequent change
of position, drugs to relax mother, more prayer.
Your answer surprised me! A caput usually spells a
malpresentation
with a cephalo/pelvic disproportion. Not a cervical
lip. I
have never seen a swollen cervix when my babes won't
descend. Just
caput.
In my experience, I have to disagree with. A caput can obviously form with a correct presentation and a large baby who has to accommodate to the size/shape of the pelvic inlet. While this can indicate a malpresentation as well, it can also be a normal occurrence. A cervical lip usually indicates that the angle of approach to the pelvic brim is not correct (asynclitic) and the pressure of the contraction is not equally distributed around the circumference of the cervix, resulting in unequal dilation. I usually suspect either a nuchal hand/arm changing the angle of the approach, or with multips with lax abdomens, simply that the abdominal muscles are not holding the baby's body at the correct angle. Both problems can be addressed by using the "Pancake Flip" - changing the mother's position (2 contractions on the left side, 2 on the right side, 2 on hands and knees, and 2 in knee-chest position) and reassessing the situation. It is necessary to back the head off the pelvis a bit to allow it to realign properly, and this will usually do the trick with one round of 8 contractions. If the lip is truly swollen, it may be necessary to apply Evening Primrose Oil to the cervix, and I have also used ice successfully to reduce the swelling.
I have always felt that a caput was a healthy adaptation of the baby to the particular size/shape of the mom's pelvis. BUT it can be a clue that there is some disproportion here as well. With experience, a midwife will learn to distinguish true descent from increasing caput as far as progress is concerned.
I hardly ever see swollen cervixes ..... But I also strongly
encourage
my moms to "blow the baby out", or use open mouth pushing if they
cannot
blow through the contractions. Much easier on the baby's
head and
the mom's bottom - assuming that the FHT's are acceptable of
course.
Does make for slightly longer second stages, but the trade-off is
well
worth it.
Nothing in my post referred to 'caput' OR 'cervical lip'; only 'swollen cervix'.
In my experience, the 'Swollen cervix', like a 'fat donut' or
'bagel'
doesn't occur that often but usually somewhere between 4 and 8 cm,
in conjunction
with either feto-pelvic disproportion (which doesn't mean it can't
be overcome),
with or without caput (that would depend on a number of other
factors such
as Vicki described well) and/or possibly a malpresentation like an
OP,
just plain tight fit OR a labor providing a great deal of force
from above
with a great deal of resistance from below as in 'rigid' cervix. I
think
of the 'swollen cervix' in the mother as similar to the 'caput' in
the
fetus; both are caused by 'extreme' pressure' and some people's
bodies
are no doubt more susceptible to forming edema in the labor
process. I
don't like seeing it because it usually means more work for mom
AND me
and I, for one, am getting old, impatient and tired (of seeing
women have
to struggle through dystocia). The whole 'cervical lip' thing is
yet another
conversation, may or may not persist with a complete, evenly
swollen cervix
and I would have to say again, Vicki summed up that scenario very
well.
I see (usually small) caputs on some babies who are completely OA,
not
asynclitic and come out without too much fuss, sometimes in labors
commencing
with PROM/AROM, pit indxn/augs and just lots of pressure against a
particular
spot with subsequent physiologic response. Not always pathologic.
As far
as why our 'differences'? although we service widely divergent
patient
populations, birth is birth and these situations will just
come along,
it's the 'luck of the draw'.
I think a swollen cervix is a symptom of disproportion or uterine dysfunction -- rather than a "cause" of delay. If we can fix the dysfunction with herbs/meds/relaxation/time -- or fix the disproportion by finding a better angle or position -- then we might actually fix the problem and get a vaginal baby.
A anterior lip is kind of a different problem -- sometimes it ain't anything other than just the last bit of cervix to get out of the way, and sometimes it's easy to treat with position, our hands, or time -- but sometimes it's got the same cause as a swollen cervix and is gonna be a big battle.
My experience with lips is they either go away in a couple contractions with repositioning -- or they go away within a few minutes if we hold them up - or they aren't gonna budge no way for nuthin.
And of course == if we don't do so many vaginals, then we don't find so many lips to begin with... ... at least not the transient kind which are going to disappear shortly on their own without any "treatment".
but what do I do for stubborn lips and swollen cvxs?
Sometimes time is the best treatment, so I monitor carefully, keep mom eating and drinking. try to get her to relax in whatever position works best. Maybe try resting in bath, Maybe try squatting or other position to bring more pressure on cervix. Maybe try the opposite and take pressure OFF the cervix by getting mom on hands or knees or elevated Simms. Maybe try ROM (or else wish I had not done ROM).
I don't know what works. Sometimes nothing does.
I have tried various herbs and homeopathics but haven't had the miracle success that others have. Once tried ice but it didn't work. One time got mom positioned on side with butt in the air and a good-sized swallow of rum and she went to sleep. That seemed to work a treat.
I haven't had to transport often, but this is the most common reason -- a cervix nearly dilated, or dilated with a remaining lip, or just no further progress and beginning to swell. Oh -- usually the baby is posterior too. (As we've been able to reduce the numbers of posteriors, this scene becomes less common of course.)
re caputs -
A caput is a pretty normal process in labor -- normal enough with
primips
to be expected - at least the small to moderate ones are. Big ones
can
be a sign of a tight fit though -- and sometimes you think the
baby is
coming, but all you got is caput. That's not a fun scene at all.
True, a caput doesn't mean the head won't come in, but can mean it won't. In its own right it can be a 'failure to progress'. You can have a caput that progresses and then you can have those that don't.
After reading everyone's description of a swollen cervix, I can
only
conclude that I have never had one. I have had lips and yes
they
can be caused by a head that isn't entering 'right on'. I
have mom
push with contraction as I push them up, babe comes down and it is
all
over.
My experience with CPD is that although the cervix may feel like
a donut,
it's been a rather floppy, formless donut rather than a fat,
swollen donut.
I have not had swollen cervix for sooo many years I am not sure
how
to answer you except to say that I think that the cervix gets
trapped between
the head and the pubis. The head CAN go around it or someone
can
push it up. The longer it sits there the more swollen it
becomes.
I, personally, just push it up and don't let it swell.
Give counter pressure to unswell it, hold up over head (even between conts), and have push past the cx.
I have had lips and yes they can be caused by a head that isn't
entering
'right on'. I have mom push with contraction as I push them
up, babe
comes down and it is all over.
Wish I could say the same as you, but not my luck. maybe you're
pushing
harder than me, but I've had a couple of stubborn ones over the
years.
Hmmm. I never had one I could not get up. I may have
to
go with a position change, but still, with a contraction, I push
them up
as mom pushes and once the head passes that point, it doesn't come
down
again. The position change seems to make it easier for mom to know
how
to push.
The
Anterior Cervical Lip: how to ruin a perfectly good birth
[Midwife Thinking blog from 1/22/11]
The anterior portion of the cervix is the last part to get out of
the
way... it's not pathological -- it's just the way they are made.
Give them
a
bit of time and the lip will disappear. Tincture
of time is my usual remedy for a lip. Getting mom to relax,
rest
and wait. Water and darkness are great tools at this
point.
I think something needs to change -- either the position of the
baby (kid
probably needs to complete rotation), or time or better
contractions, or
a rest in order to "get" better contractions later, or better
maternal
position.
Pushing on hands and knees will help!
I rarely use time . . . if the mom is pushing, I hold the cervix
back
between contractions and allow the head to slide right past -
usually in
one contraction. I totally agree that if it doesn't work in
1 or
2 contractions, it's not ready, but it's rare for it not to work.
I was taught to hold it out of the way also.. went through the
same
process of discovering that "most" of them will go away just as
fast if
we do nothing as they will if I held them up (man, does this cause
cramps
in the midwife's shoulders, arm, fingers and back[Grin])! We try
positioning
and getting mom to relax and breathe through a few contractions..
we do
add "side lying" to the above list of positions. Also a good time
to float
in a tub[Grin]..
I think that "usually" a lip will resolve itself more easily on
mom
and at least as quickly if we use the hands off approach. (Again,
not always,
and there's the unusual situation where holding the lip is
needed.. but
I think it's rare).
How do I decide whether to attempt to hold a lip or rest the mom?
Waiting
for a few contractions to see if the uncontrollable pushing urge
kicks
in often decides the issue[Grin] but "if" I feel a swollen lip I
might
try lifting it. If it melts away and stays away during the next
contractions,
then I'll try that for perhaps one or two more. If it is tense or
if the
lip comes right back down during-or after-- a contraction, then I
think
it doesn't do a lot of good to keep holding it -- it will
eventually go
away if I do that (or not).. but I think that sort of lip will go
away
just as fast without me in there...
RE -- observing a lip come down with the baby.. Actually that's
not
too uncommon and probably wouldn't matter whether you tried to
move the
lip out of the way or not. It's not impeding birth and you
probably couldn't
have avoided it anyway (ever held a lip up "forever" got it out of
the
way, mom pushed well and lip STILL was visible with baby? It
happens sometimes...
might even be a normal variation).
I believe cervical lips are sometimes a sign of an
OP/OT/asynclitic
position, and I don't believe they impede progress. Don't forget,
that
last centimeter or so is not dilatation in the horizontal plane,
but the
cervix being slipped past the baby's head as it descends
vertically. If
they get really, really edematous, I believe they should be
slipped up
just so they don't get so edematous that they get trapped by the
symphysis.
It is easy, and not terribly painful, if you push them up between
contractions, hold them up past the symphysis, and have mom push
with her
next contractions.
If you are open to homeopathy, arnica 30x given throughout labor
helps
reduce swelling, thereby helping to reduce cervical lips. I also
had a
midwife who would have the woman roll flat on her back for one
contraction
and try to put her knees to her ears. The theory is that by
curving the
back, the baby's head is lifted out of the pelvis enough that it
gives
the lip room to slide back on its own. Haven't tried it, but she
says it
works every time, and in one contraction. And is significantly
less painful
than pushing it manually.
If positioning & Arnica don't work, and the lip can't be
reduced
over the baby's head during a ctx ( or the mom is toooo
uncomfortable),
I've used an ice cube applied directly on the lip with fast
results. The
ice melts quickly, and the mom usually loves the coolness where
there is
sooooo much heat.
When I use Arnica for a swollen anterior cervical lip, it's
homeopathic
arnica 30c, 3-5 pellets under the tongue and repeated in 20-30 min
if necessary.
We have had to transport in for pit to get her to the pushing
stage.
First time we went in at 7 cm. Monday we made it to just a rim but
couldn't
get past that. Baby does fine no problems at all so I waited and
waited
and waited. She was at 9 for 24 hours. I know that is outrageous
but she
was not in labor. She slept a good 6 hours and when she awoke had
contractions
only 7-10 minutes apart.
I've seen them do this.. and the general consensus here is that IF THE WATERS ARE NOT BROKEN and if there have been NO or very limited internal exams; then there should be little stress on the baby -- and the decision then is based on how the mother feels. If labor is light with weak and sporadic contractions, and mom is sleeping and eating and willing to wait for good labor to kick in - - - well; I think most would wait.
I lot o f "if's" there though...
I did have one woman who stopped at 8 cms... We left the place and gave privacy (not much point in us being there if there are not good contractions)..... Good labor started again the next day..
Some would call this uterine inertia -- some would call it a normal but uncommon labor pattern.. Gotta figure out what's going on and if there is any problem contributing to it (for instance, a tight fit -- but then you would expect to see GOOD contractions, which peter out as the uterus and mom get exhausted. Doesn't sound like what you describe).
Best advice for this type of labor is to do no internals until
contractions
are consistently under five minutes and/or mom is showing
transition signs..
Assuming intact membranes, the major risk of this easy, light
labor is
infection -- so no internals until CONSISTENT labor pattern!
My non-invasive methods of reducing a lip are: arnica 30c po q15
min,
change in position first left lateral and later if needed (mom
doesn't
like lying on side) hands and knees. If I have a fat lip, and
mom's circumstances
are that I need to get it out of the way, but I will take more
than just
slipping it over the head during one ctx......I'll set her on the
toilet,
and hold it during and between 3-4 ctx. If it's not gone by 4 ctx,
we take
a rest......her body and my hand need a rest by then. If I feel
any increasing
edema, I will stop immediately and go back to the position
changes. I always
give the arnica though.
From Polly Perez - Here is the tip I use the labor support workshop I do:
Rock forward straightening legs and leaning down looking at the ground
When contraction starts- "hang" from someone with your arms
around their
neck
(the second movement help the baby descend/
Hands and knees works well for me. I have had several
mothers
use this and the lip was reduced with minimal cervical trauma (as
can be
the case when manually reduced by a nurse/doc) and reduced fairly
quickly
within a couple of contx.
So how many of you subscribe to the theory of putting pressure on
the
lip helps get it out of the way? And how many subscribe to letting
the
pressure off helps get it out of the way? Translated means: Who
has her
do hands and knees and Who has her semi-recline?
I do arnica and hands and knees. If she can't stand hands and knees I will ask her to stay way over on her side (practically on her belly).
When I was interning, I saw lots of ladies who would come to
delivery
with an urge to push. On VE I would feel no cervix on one side,
and about
2 -3 cm on the other. Generally it was because in labor they would
lay
on one side and stay there (they didn't have much choice, they
often shared
two to a single size hospital bed, so each would lay on one side
and avoid
disturbing the other lady. ) The side they laid on was invariably
the side
that was more dilated. We would just make them lay on the
undilated side
for about 15 minutes, and voila! they became complete.
I haven't used it in relationship to posterior cervix, but I don't know why it won't work for the same reasons.
What I have had experience with is when there is 8-9 cm cx that is more on one side than the other. What I find is that it is like that because the weight of the baby is on the cervix, so that if they are lying on their left, there is more cervix on their left side. Usually removing the weight of the baby (turning them to their other side) remedies this. So I don't know why the same things won't work for the posterior cervix. (provided that the baby is well applied to the cervix)
Therefore my vote is for the semi-reclining to take the weight
off of
the anterior lower uterine segment.
I'm not so sure that hands and knees, or side lying, helps a lip
or
poorly dilating anterior portion of the cervix "by putting
pressure on"
the region -- I think the reason it might help is because we seem
to see
more efficient contractions (for most women) in this position. Not
sure
where the "pressure" really is in various positions...
Several midwives in my area have taken to giving arnica 200 c. or
triple
potency's Muscle and Joint Injury when labor starts, and at the
beginning
of second stage, and just after birth. They have all been noticing
that
there have been fewer anterior lips... we are all wondering, but
it makes
sense!!
I have used these Homeopathics with good results over 18 years
for cervical
lips: Aconite 30 when it's due to fear, tension and it's a tight
dry lip
that won't budge. Gelsemium 30 can be used when it's a real tight
lip,
or it's one of those loose floppy lip that still won't move. Each
one of
these can be used with several doses, but don't give them
together. Take
them orally.
I have on occasion used oil of Primrose to soften up the rim.
Evening primrose oil doesn't work 100% of the time, but I would
say
at least 80%.
See also: Sterile Water
Papules
I just saw the sterile water injections done for the first time
by one
of the midwives in my new job. It worked amazingly well. The Mom
felt instant
relief and was able to rest for a bit, allow the lip of cervix to
go and
push out a beautiful baby 7-5 who rotated right before delivery.
I put on a sterile glove, pick up some ice, and put on another
glove
so that the ice is between my fingers. Then I rub the cervix with
the ice.
It seems to decrease the swelling, and the head moves on, so to
speak.
Occasionally ice feels good on the perineum if the mom's
experiencing the
'ring of fire'. Yes, instead of warm packs, I try cool ones. Work
for some
women.
I have recently heard of a very experienced midwife who routinely
manually
dilates the cervix to speed up labors. The mom who had been
attended by
this woman was very grateful, since she felt her labor would have
been
very long, otherwise. Something about this doesn't "sit right"
with me.
I know that any unnecessary intervention (and I would, in this
woman's
case, call it unnecessary) only hinders normal labor, and can
affect mom's
emotions in many ways that we do not even see. Can you tell me
what the
physical risks of manual dilation are?
Most attempts at manual dilation are a matter of pressing the
cervix
open during a contraction while the uterus pulls up on the cervix
and the
head presses down through it. Many midwives consider it an
"intervention"
that would only be used when progress was slow enough to be
considering
transport. In any case, it would not be done vigorously enough to
tear
the cervix. Sometimes it works beautifully, and sometimes it only
seems
to work. That is where the danger of cervical tearing comes in. If
the
cervix opens all the way with your manual assistance, then
gradually closes
and swells up, then pushing could cause a tear. This wouldn't
usually happen,
since even pushing on an 8cm cervix wont usually cause a tear.
Tearing
of the cervix is pretty rare in a non-forceps delivery. But that
would
be about the only physical danger from manual dilation. To
minimize the
chance of cervical tearing, manual dilation should be fairly
gentle, the
cervix should continue to be assessed after the procedure, and the
mother
should not push until she feels the descent of the baby. As far as
using
manual dilation to START a labor, I don't know why this would
cause tearing
several hours later at birth unless it was torn just a little with
the
manual dilation (remember the excessive bloody show) and then the
little
tear spread to a bigger one during pushing. We must remember that
all interventions,
even midwife ones, can have some risk. We are always trying to
balance
out the risks of what we do at home against what we suspect will
happen
in the hospital.
I wonder if "holding a lip" causes the baby's head to deflex?
I think it is probably the other way around....a deflexed head causing
the lip to start with.
I assume we are talking anterior lip that is getting caught and
starting
to swell when the woman pushes down.... and a good pushing urge.
This is
an interesting question. Possibly this could happen if the baby
was OP,
but then posteriors are often not as well flexed, but it seems
like the
reverse might be true if the baby were OA, don't you think?
I often find that it's even the head that is just trying to turn to OA from LOA or ROA that will drag down that lip that just won't go, no matter how strong the urge or how "push-backable" the lip seems to be. We usually have the woman lie on her side for a contraction or two to assist in completing the rotation, which generally gets rid of the lip very nicely and - voila - a baby! This, BTW, seems more often to be a problem with multips than primips, in my experience.
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